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La Sierra's board of trustees last week unanimously voted to endorse Adventist beliefs that the world was created in six 24-hour days and said the teaching of evolution must be "within the context of the Adventist belief regarding creation."A scientifically rigorous affirmation of religious belief does not exist. Science (evolution, biology, astronomy, physics, geology) is incompatible with the Biblical account of a six day creation.
The board also proposed that all 15 North American Adventist universities develop a curriculum that includes a "scientifically rigorous affirmation" of Adventist creation beliefs.
The Seventh-day Adventist church is among the denominations that specifically state that creation occurred in six literal days, and that the world was created several thousand years ago, not billions of years ago.As if things weren't bad enough already, this is not going far enough for 6,300 people who have signed a petition "expressing concern that evolution is presented as fact at La Sierra and other Seventh-day Adventist universities."
Shane Hilde, the Beaumont man spearheading the petition drive, said he will be satisfied only when Adventist creation beliefs are presented as the preferred world view in classes in which evolution is discussed.Biology is science, but discussing religious theories (I'm being generous) along with evolutionary biology will undermine that standing at La Sierra. Mantra: Discuss only science in science classes. Say it! It's shouldn't be so hard to understand. I know it is, demonstratively it is, but it should not be so.
In the meantime, don't go to La Sierra, because it is a parody of a university; they simply haven't understood what higher learning is supposed to be all about. Also, their biology graduates will be ill-equipped for a range of career-choices involving biology.
Ironically (ignorantly), they don't have a problem with administering H1N1 flu vaccines to their students. The reason a new vaccine is needed is because the virus evolves.
There is some history that this brief piece seems not to be aware of. First, there is a web-based outcry among certain vocal partisans against La Sierra University precisely because the university's outstanding professors insist on teaching only science in their science classes. The problem for the detractors is that this Christian uni does NOT teach creation in its science classes.
ReplyDeleteSecond, for those closely watching this debacle as it unfolds, the statement of the board affirming a scientifically rigorous approach to creation beliefs is sharply ironic.
The Adventist Church created a Geoscience Research Institute to create a viable, scientifically rigorous model that could reconcile scientific data and Adventist understandings of creation. In the 50 years that GRI has existed, it has not come up with such a model. The LSU board, in calling for curriculum that includes scientifically rigorous affirmation of creationism is calling the church's bluff.
As this article astutely points out, "Scientifically rigorous affirmation of religious belief does not exist."
Thus the irony.
-A La Sierra University Grad Student
Student, I read that La Sierra is an undergrad institution. But you're a grad student. How?
ReplyDeleteAlso, thanks for sharing that insight.
The LSU board, in calling for curriculum that includes scientifically rigorous affirmation of creationism is calling the church's bluff.
So you mean to say that the LSU board doesn't think that the Church can provide such a curriculum, and thus expects that this will end up not changing courses? If so, that devious. Nice.
There is science and there are the world views we use to interpret the data.
ReplyDeleteThe theory of evolution is not science. It's speculation based off of an interpretation of the data. The same goes for creationism.
It seems that there is also a misconception of what would actually be taught in a biology class that does not subscribe to the theory of evolution. The same data wold be studied, the same tools used, the same scientific methods implemented; however, the interpretation would be very different.
A curriculum can be created and in fact is already in place at other Adventist universities such as Southwestern Adventist University and Loma Linda University. Professors from theses universities are even published in the peer reviewed journals. Creationists can and do good science and get published.
Shane, can you please tell us which papers these creationist professors have published? I'd like to read them.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I wonder how you interpret the radiometric dating, which (by the standard method of interpretation, let's call it) tells us that the Earth is very much older than what you young-Earth creationists believe?
Dear Friend,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all let me tell you that I am a current student at La Sierra University, and that I was very concerned about this situation that was going on. I love La Sierra and would highly recommended to ANYbody who would like to attend a SDA university/college.
Second, I would like to know if you have been to LSU and have talked to the chair of the Biology Department because the things that you are saying in this blog are completely inaccurate. As a student at LSU I was horrified by the news that a professor was teaching evolutionism as a fact and as a believe, but that was wrong. I have talked to MOST of the students who were taking that class during the time that this whole thing started and they ALL tell me that it was just part of the class and that NONE of them thought the way this student who started this problem did. Another thing, as a higher education institution we HAVE to teach evolutionism. I would NOT like to go and take the MCAT and not know this theory that is FUNDAMENTAL for every Biology student. When it comes to education you got to understand that there are things that we, as SDAs, may not like but that we HAVE to learn.
Lastly, we are SDA. As SDA we should not be criticizing one another the way you are doing it. Do you think Jesus would be happy by reading your blog? What would Jesus do about this problem? We are brothers and sisters in Christ and instead of doing what you are doing, Why don’t you come and get inform about the situation and if there is something that you do not like then talk to us.
I as a student am very angry to see how people are talking so many bad things about LSU without knowing what actually happened inside that classroom last year.
God Bless,
Juan Carlos Bordes - LSU Student
PD. If you would like to tell me something about this hit me up on facebook.
I love La Sierra and would highly recommended to ANYbody who would like to attend a SDA university/college.
ReplyDeleteI don't dispute that among Seventh-Day Adventist institutions, La Sierra is top of the notch.
I have not been to LSU.
As a student at LSU I was horrified by the news that a professor was teaching evolutionism as a fact and as a believe, but that was wrong.
You are confusing me, Juan. You were horrified by a professor teaching evolution (I assume you mean evolution when you say evolutionism, though they are different things) as a fact and as a belief? A bio prof should teach evolutionary theory and show the evidence that evolution did in fact occur and is occurring. But then you say that this was not what he did? Seems like a problem to me.
Do you think Jesus would be happy by reading your blog?
Hey, thanks! you have just nominated yourself for Best apologetic of the month for February. Congratz!
Do I think Jesus would be happy reading my blog (and I assume you mean blog-post - so many people equate the two)? Yeah, I think he would be very happy. Jesus was a rebel, fighting for the weak and oppressed. Speaking up against stupidity and bad education is one thing I expect he would do if he were around today.
We are brothers and sisters in Christ and instead of doing what you are doing, Why don’t you come and get inform about the situation and if there is something that you do not like then talk to us.
I am not your sibling in Christ, dude. Blogging is a sin, now?
I as a student am very angry to see how people are talking so many bad things about LSU without knowing what actually happened inside that classroom last year.
If you read my blog-post again, you'll see that it is not at all about what happened in the classroom, but about 'La Sierra's board of trustees last week unanimously voted to endorse Adventist beliefs that the world was created in six 24-hour days and said the teaching of evolution must be "within the context of the Adventist belief regarding creation."'
P.S. Do you compete in the SDA spelling bee? I think you'd do well.
Shane,
ReplyDeleteIf you have something to test, then by all means test it. But you have to be open to changing your mind based upon the data. And that's the problem. You're using science to prove a worldview, which is doing the whole process in reverse.
I have yet to see any creationist research that falls under the rubric of science. I have seen a lot of ID/creationist literature that spends a lot of time talking about the problems with evolutionary theory...but that's about it. That's not science, although critique is certainly vital and important. Creationists are using the veneer of science to try to make political ground. I think it's a faulty exercise, for many reasons. There is no actual science in ID or creationist research. If there is, I would like to see it.
Where is the research? What scientific methods are being employed? What excavations are being led? How are you studying evolutionary biology? What experiments are you conducting? What analysis of early human remains are you conducting? Any archaeological excavations? How are you testing your data? What data are you using? Where are your results published? What hypotheses are you putting forth?
Most importantly: are you willing to change your ideas based upon new data? Doubtful. Why? Because you are trying to mix two fields of knowledge that are pretty incommensurable in many senses. Religious belief is about faith--how can that be tested in any material sense? It can't. Belief in god--whether the Judeo-Christian sense of god or the Hindu version--can't be tested scientifically.
The problem, of course, is that you already have your answer before you even start, and you are looking for the data that will "prove" that data. That's not how science works, at all. You already have your end result, and your use of the term "science" is more political than anything.
Here is another question: are you arguing for a "creationist" world view, or for creationism as a whole? Are you arguing that equal time should be given to Dogon creation stories, Cherokee creation stories, and Kalahari San creation stories in science classrooms? Hardly. Of course you're not, because this is a political movement that seeks to support one worldview over others, and creationists are challenging science because they feel it is a threat. You are arguing for your own religious-political worldview, period.
Religion and belief remain outside of the testable realm--and therefore outside of science. I understand the conflict between religion and science, but I think there are ways for both sides to live peacefully in the same world. People have different ways of looking at the world, and of understanding human existence. Religion deals with ethics, morals, and meaning. Science deals with a more materialistic, empirical, and historical understanding of reality. There isn't really a lot of overlap--but that depends on who you ask. But do we all have to agree 100% I don't think so. At some point we have to be OK to agree to disagree.
I think that one step toward alleviating this issue is for people like Richard Dawkins to stop making inflammatory statements about religion as a whole, and for creationist folks to stop trying to force themselves into science classrooms. If anything, there should be a world religions that discusses religion from a humanities standpoint. Why? Because there is a reason why we have a separation between church and state. The same legal system that keeps one religion from becoming a state religion keeps ANY religion from becoming a state religion.
The last thing anyone wants or should be pushing for is a state-mandated or supported religious system. There is a reason why the US was founded in the way it was...just take a look at the state-based religious wars in Europe during the 16th and 17th centuries.
First of all, JESUS WILL NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS BLOG I believe. Because it is pointless to say just don't go to La Sierra. What about the other faithful students and faculty? Plus, La Sierra is very faithful SDA institution including biology department. In my opinion, to convert evolutionists to Creationist without the knowldge of the evolution is very hard. It is somethng what uneducated people do. Ok you are Christian but they are not. You see my point? They are not Christians. We have to know them. I'm not saying we have to believe evolution. I'm just saying we have to know them.
ReplyDeleteSHIT SHIT SHIT!!! I thought Jesus wold love this blog, but now you told me otherwise? Waaaaahhh!
ReplyDeleteOkay, just kidding. I do not believe in Jesus, so no worries.
You see my point?
No, I really, really don't.