This of course reminds us of a different harvest; the harvest of souls! Those who have yet to hear the good news of Christ’s death on the cross!Yeah! Good news, Christ died. Painfully. For you (no reason to feel guilty). It's such great news (though somewhat old news, by now). And these people who have never even heard that they are living in sin, we go tell them so that they may feel bad, but then tell them about Jesus dying for those sins, so you can believe in him. And if you don't, you can go to hell.
Please, don't give me that sophisticated theology, 'cause that's not how you harvest souls, is it? In fact, as he tells in Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes Daniel Everett, who was a missionary to the Pirahã, was told by a senior missionary that "sometimes you've got to get them lost before they can be found." If they aren't broken, there's nothing to fix. So break them, and then fix them.
Everett ended up living with the Pirahan for many years, and eventually he became an atheist. Hardy people, the Pirahã are.
Lance and Laura Ostman continues.
Sonà, one of the church leaders, stopped by the house for a visit recently. During the course of conversation he named off six villages that are ASKING for someone to come teach them! One of these villages had missionaries living there in the early 80’s but their leaders forced them out. Now that they are gone, the younger generation wants to hear the teaching.Right. "We need more people to help with the harvest, so come and teach us how your magical god can be persuaded to send more hands. Do we really really need to hear about sins, too? Oh, okay, but then we don't go to this hell-place, right? As long as we what...? Well, okay, as long as Jesus sends people to help with the harvest, I suppose that's a fair trade-off. Also, really looking forward to those 69 virgins waiting for me in the sky... Relax, I'm kidding!!!!!"
He said, “We need prayer for more laborers. It’s just like what Christ said that the harvest is great but the laborers are few.”
This is an exciting problem to have. Please pray with us for more Higaunon believers to go out with the message that they have been privileged to now have in their own language.
Interesting commentary on Lance and Laura Ostman's updates.
ReplyDeleteKeep processing what they are writing about. You might even consider visiting them sometime.
What's interesting, David? That I don't like what you missionaries do?
ReplyDeleteLet me rephrase the next two sentences (don't you just love sarcasm?):
"If you think it over some more, what Lance and Laura write on their blog, you'll realize that what they are doing is bringing the truth about Jesus dying on the cross for your sins, as well as salvation for your eternal soul. That is what you'd understand if you process what they write on their blog. And you might even consider visiting them sometime, because you share family names, and you probably have a lot more in common than you think, and, most importantly, they can show you the light, the truth, and the way that is Jesus."
Or something. But seriously, why don't I come for a visit? Because I can't afford it. Because I have a job. Because when I go traveling, I go visit my family. Because if I went, I would surely be sickened by the lies and indoctrination perpetrated by missionaries everywhere. As I always am.
Bjørn - It's interesting to hear your understanding of what Lance and Laura write about. You appear to have some deep-seated hatred for Christianity, missionaries or is it God?
ReplyDeleteIs it because Lance and Laura offer people a choice to hear of the one who says he is the Intelligent Designer? How does evolutionary process produce such feelings of right and wrong in you that you would attack another's beliefs?
I understand financial limitations, and I wasn't intending to highlight yours in suggesting you visit them. From my observations, the people who are most opposed to missionary work have never lived among the tribal people they claim to defend.
Finding out in person what the tribal people have to say about their quality of life before the Ostmans came in comparison to now would be extremely valuable.
Lance and Laura have provided some of that information, but I'm guessing you would interpret it as propaganda unless you were there in person. Search for "Unripe Ones" on their blog: http://www.ntm.org/lance_ostman
Bjørn - It's interesting to hear your understanding of what Lance and Laura write about. You appear to have some deep-seated hatred for Christianity, missionaries or is it God?
ReplyDeleteI hate the idea of faith - believing in things contrary to evidence.
I hate the practice of spreading faith to people who didn't ask for it. Note that I think helping people who ask for it, without telling them what they must believe about gods, is great.
I don't believe in God, but if he were real, I would not like him because of the things he supposedly has done (according to the Bible), and because of how he manages his creation (neglect, basically). The fact that he created me (again, I don't at all believe in such fairytales) does not make me admire him. A bad father is a bad father.
If you think that makes me a hateful person, then so be it. I don't think, though, that people who know me would ever describe me as hateful. Critical, yes, often to an annoying degree maybe, but not hateful.
Is it because Lance and Laura offer people a choice to hear of the one who says he is the Intelligent Designer? How does evolutionary process produce such feelings of right and wrong in you that you would attack another's beliefs?
It's because what missionaries is misinformation. Many people have said this better than I, so please refer to those (Russell, Ibn Warraq, Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Rushdie, PZ Myers, etc.)
(and if you want to really learn about evolutionary theory, do let me know.)
I understand financial limitations, and I wasn't intending to highlight yours in suggesting you visit them. From my observations, the people who are most opposed to missionary work have never lived among the tribal people they claim to defend.
Of course most people who oppose missionary work has not lived among those tribes, because most people have not lived among those tribes. Most people who oppose war has not been in war, and most people who are dislike communism never lived under communism, etc. etc. We do have lots of accounts about the work done by missionaries, and the effects thereof. And lots of evidence of the ill effects of religion.
Finding out in person what the tribal people have to say about their quality of life before the Ostmans came in comparison to now would be extremely valuable.
Lance and Laura have provided some of that information, but I'm guessing you would interpret it as propaganda unless you were there in person. Search for "Unripe Ones" on their blog: http://www.ntm.org/lance_ostman
“I am reading His book quite often because there are still so many things in our Higaunon ways that are opposed to the ways of the Creator. We need to grow in our understanding of what He wants."
Before they were afraid of death and evil spirits, but now they are happy because their new God will accept them into heaven once they die, as long as they follow his rules. They are scared of sickness. That could be alleviated with medicine (has nothing to do with religion). They believe in bad omens, which I think is inane, but changing their beliefs from one crazy thing to another is not the answer. E.g. this one:
"For instance if a baby has its umbilical cord wrapped around its neck at birth, that is a bad omen and the baby must be buried. We have to crush up some ginger root and stuff it down the babies throat and then place it in a shallow grave under the house. We don’t like doing this because many times we hear the baby screaming from under the ground for a long time."
Why would you guess that I would think it is propaganda? I don't. I just think that Lance and Laura are taking advantage of the sickness and fears of the Higaunon. Bottom line is that they can be helped without all the superstition.
Thanks for engaging me on this topic Bjørn!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how you understood the comment about umbilical cord, but the whole part you quoted was part of the Higaunon belief. None of that included a response from the missionaries.
If you understand the message Lance and Laura brought to be the exchange of one list of rules for another, you don't understand biblical Christianity -- only religion. Lance and Laura have not brought religion.
Propaganda would be making things up or skewing the facts to shape perception. Lance and Laura are quoting the people. That's not propaganda.
If you believe in evolution, your strong reaction against what one cell glob would tell another must be extremely perplexing. Why should you care since they have no relavance on your personal survival?
I'm not sure how you understood the comment about umbilical cord, but the whole part you quoted was part of the Higaunon belief. None of that included a response from the missionaries.
ReplyDeleteYes, of course I was aware this was Higaunon belief! It was quoted as an example crazy Higaunon beliefs.
Lance and Laura have not brought religion, only Christianity? So their Christianity is not religion?
As for propaganda, you are close to putting words in my mouth. Again, I do not call what they do propaganda, alright?
You say Lance and Laura are quoting the people, but surely they are doing more than that as missionaries. That's not really a question.
If you believe in evolution, your strong reaction against what one cell glob would tell another must be extremely perplexing. Why should you care since they have no relavance on your personal survival?
What? is that what you think atheists who believe in evolution think other people are, just globs of cells? Are you under the (common creationist) misperception that if one believes evolution is true, then one cannot explain why humans are moral, and thus we shouldn't have morality beyond our own survival?